The Disaster of Wrestlemania 41! And the Dark Phoenix Saga!

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm King Loki and this is Lowbrow, where me and my friend Matt talk about wrestling and annoy my friend Chris. And then we flip the script and me and my friend Chris annoy Matt about comic books. Hopefully you'll see that these things are very, very, very similar. That being said, Matt, WrestleMania 41. What the fuck happened? [00:00:19] Speaker B: The Rock happened. [00:00:20] Speaker A: Or. Or did it happen? [00:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it didn't happen. Yeah, everybody thought. Everybody thought he was going to happen, but, you know, he ended up not showing up, which, you know. You know, there was no. There were no reports of him showing up whatsoever. But. But everybody just expected him to because he's the one who kicked off the big storyline. But, yeah, he. He got in the way for the second year in the row, so that's fun. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Crazy. So, Chris, do you have a high opinion of the Rock? Do you like the Rock? [00:00:48] Speaker C: The Rock stars in my favorite movie, Red One. So I can't, you know, say too much bad about that Christmas action movie. No, no. Like, I mean, it's just one of those things I don't feel too strongly. He's just one of those people that's been overexposed. There's people that. I think it's gotten to a point where it's like, just because of overexposure, people just hate him. Like, he's been like every movie ever. And it's just kind of like we're just tired of seeing him. [00:01:09] Speaker A: The Rock is kind of all over. I remember when a stupid Black Adam came out and he was running around acting like it was the greatest movie ever. [00:01:16] Speaker C: And he's like, we have built universe. We talking about. We thought terrible movie. [00:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So, Matt, Matt, Matt, were you as excited about WrestleMania as I was? [00:01:26] Speaker B: So I'll be honest with you, I was not excited for the main event, the second Nightman event, you know, John Cena versus Cody Rhodes. But the rest of the show looked really, really good and solid. So I was looking forward to the weekend in general. Plus, there were, like, so many other shows going on, independent wise. As you guys know, I'm a big wrestling nerd, so I was just looking forward to the weekend in general. Unfortunately, the cherry on top of everything was, you know, John Cena basically trying to ruin wrestling. And he kind of is actually trying, you know, doing a good job of doing so. But the rest of the card was, I thought, very, very strong. And I ended up enjoying the. The two nights in general. I'm glad that you guys brought up Black Adam, because Black Adam is basically solely responsible for the rock, ruining two WrestleManias in a row because Black Adam, the lack of success it had and then his inability to take over DC is what created his desire to come back to wrestling to rebuild his brand. Because the fans that really love to see him, to see him, are the wrestling fans. So anytime I think I got booted, I'm back. Anytime he'll. Anytime he needs a little bit of a boost, he shows up in wrestling. Because then he'll get 20,000 people chanting his name and screaming and he'll get the goosebumps, you know, and then, you know, he doesn't really always know exactly what's going on, but he inserts himself. And that's exactly what happened last year at WrestleMania 40. But it happened again this year because unfortunately, elimination chamber wasn't selling too well. So they called on the old Rock and said, hey, Rock, can you, like, move some tickets? And he was like, all right, I'll show up. [00:03:01] Speaker A: They put his fucking face there. They made it seem like he was going to be part of it, too. Yeah. [00:03:06] Speaker B: And, you know, for somebody who is stars in 3 million movies, apparently he doesn't know that there needs to be a beginning, middle, and end. [00:03:12] Speaker C: He has. He hasn't picked that up. [00:03:14] Speaker B: He doesn't even have to be in that order. You just have to have three of those. Three things, you know? Yeah. So two. Two WrestleManias in a row, for sure. Messed up. By the. [00:03:23] Speaker C: I forgot to mention one of my favorite quotes because I mentioned Red one earlier. Did hear the one thing that he said where he was like. Because he, like, saw Oppenheimer and IMAX or whatever, and he was like, like, you know, this is what our movie. Like, our movie is going to be like that. Like, everyone's going to be like our. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Oppenheimer, the movie where he plays Santa Claus. [00:03:43] Speaker C: He was like, film for imax, just like Christopher Nolan movies. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Not only did he say that, but I don't know it when it started, but you can actually go and watch, like, the wrestling pay per views. I think it's in Dallas. And I want to say either. Don't quote me on this, but either Las Vegas or Los Angeles, and it is like an IMAX theater, and you can just watch the wrestling pay per views. And I'm like, man, like, this probably has something to do with like, the Rock or tko. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So that's crazy, though, that. So WrestleMania 40 was also ruined because of his pathetic attempt to take over the DC movie brand. That is nuts. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. And his. His inability to do so brought him back to wrestling, and he was like, well, you know, since DC doesn't want me and Hollywood's kind of a little bit negative about me right now, let me go get some positivity. So he thought it was wise to, you know. Cody Rhodes had been working towards finishing his story for like, two years, and he was literally on the precipice. He was like a month and a half away from facing Roman Reigns in the main event in WrestleMania 40. And the Rock just shows up and is like, I'm actually gonna face Roman Reigns at the. In the main event of WrestleMania 40. And you can, you know, maybe do it down the line. And they even had Cody Rhodes go on TV in Cody Rhodes storyline. Cody Rhodes character and saying, like, I'm gonna give it to the Rock instead. [00:05:07] Speaker A: That's amazing. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Yeah, the backlash that the Company face and the Rock faced, like, it was the most downvoted video, like, in the history of WWE. YouTube, possibly. YouTube in general. I don't know. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Lower than the. Than the Shockmaster. [00:05:22] Speaker C: Well. [00:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah, the Shock Master. I might be the. Might be the most liked video, actually. [00:05:28] Speaker A: It's pretty great. It's pretty funny. [00:05:31] Speaker B: Phenomenal. It's phenomenal. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, like, I don't. I don't really. I don't really go online too much on social media, but, like, I had to for that and every Shack master. All right. [00:05:45] Speaker A: I told you. Oh, God. I don't care who you are, boy. I don't give a damn who you are. You're gonna have us. You're gonna have Darth Vader. And we're gonna be free to kill your neck. So you're the man that rules the world. They call me the Shockmaster. You've ruled the world long enough, Sid Vicious. Get ready. Come on. You want a piece of me? You want a piece of me? Come and get me. Come after me, Sid. I'm ready. Along with Davey Boy Sting and Dusty Rhodes. See you at the Fall Brawl at the board games. Until then. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Every post was just negative towards the Rock. And we want Cody. We want Cody. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Cody's great. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, he's phenomenal. I mean, he's. He's not only the consummate, like, Company man, but he is just a. You know, I've never met the guy, but he comes off as just a great person, you know, and deserves it. So. Yeah. So, you know, the Rock just inserted himself and, like, luckily the Company listened to the crowd and, you know, convinced the Rock like, hey, this is not the time, buddy. You know, but Then they relied on him for WrestleMania 41 because of ticket sales, so they didn't learn their lesson. [00:07:27] Speaker A: That's a shame, because Elimination chamber was fucking amazing. [00:07:31] Speaker B: It was, and it was great. Yeah, No, I agree. I. I really enjoyed it until, again, until the Rock came out. Because, you know, once he came out, and again, I didn't necessarily mind the storyline of him wanting Cody soul, even though, like, that's, you know, it's a little. It's. It's a. That's what makes wrestling lowbrow sometimes, you know? [00:07:48] Speaker A: I loved it. I loved every second of it. Yeah. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, like, I was like, all right, this is, like, weird, but I'm here for it. Like, let's see where this goes, you know? But then, you know, like, can you walk? [00:07:58] Speaker C: So he wants his. So can you, like. Like, can you elaborate? Like, you just kind of drop that. I'm like, okay. Like, I'm. I'm not someone that's, like, in this world. So, like, I'm actually. [00:08:08] Speaker B: I'm waiting for the Rock to elaborate, actually. And this. [00:08:11] Speaker C: Okay, wrestling, right, it was. [00:08:15] Speaker A: It was like a classic, his moment of wwe. I was like, oh, he wants his soul. And Justin's like, what does that mean? I'm like, it doesn't matter. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it was like Papashango or like the Undertaker. You know. [00:08:29] Speaker A: I wish. I wish it was like the Undertaker. I mean. [00:08:31] Speaker B: No. Yeah. No. Yeah. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:34] Speaker B: But, yeah. So, Chris. So, like, you know, basically, elimination chamber comes up, and the Rock had stated a show a week or two before that that he wanted Cody Rhodes soul. And everybody is like, what? [00:08:48] Speaker A: I didn't know out of nowhere, by the way, there's all this drama with, like, John Cena and Seth freaking Rollins, and people are like, whoa. And then the Rock is, like, shooting prom, like, I want your soul. [00:09:00] Speaker B: And then elimination Chamber comes, and, you know, after all the wrestling is done, all the main events, a hard, grueling elimination chamber. This, Chris, if you don't know, this huge cage structure, it's crazy. [00:09:12] Speaker A: So, all right, let's explain it, because Chris doesn't watch this. He's missing out. So, basically, what, are there eight men in it? [00:09:19] Speaker B: Six. Six. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Six men. So there's six men, right, all in separate chambers within this gigantic cage. And what happens is they release two of them. They release two of them and they go to other. And after, what is it, three minutes? [00:09:32] Speaker B: Yeah, three. Three. Five minutes. [00:09:34] Speaker A: After a couple minutes. Yeah, they roll a little lottery thing, and then they free one of the men to join the brawl. And then in Three more minutes, they release another one and you know, John Cena's there, Logan Paul's there, and they're just fucking raring to go. Who's that other guy? The. I always forget his name. I always get it wrong. The guy with In My Veins as his song. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Randy Orton. [00:09:53] Speaker A: Randy Orton, I always call him. I always call him something else. But yeah, Randy Orton is raring to go after this. Yeah, you're right. After this, like epic, like war, where like John Cena was released like the Hulk, it just starts fucking bitchifying everyone. Randy Orton comes out and he's doing his ridiculous one movie has, you know, the technical, the tko, Right? [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, rk, whatever, the rko. [00:10:15] Speaker A: It's. It's cool. It's just all he does. Yeah. After that, like, Cody Rhodes comes out and like, go ahead. You just keep going. Yeah. [00:10:22] Speaker B: And territory Rock comes out. And basically, basically, just to. To summarize, the rock is like. [00:10:29] Speaker A: Well, you know, the rock doesn't just come out. He comes out wearing this amazing super villain outfit. It has like a high collar and a cape and like there. There's like a rapper next to him, like holding his belt like his. It's like Pip Stroll next to him. He's fat. [00:10:45] Speaker C: Has he ever like. Like he just. He should just like come out as Black Adam. Like, has he ever just like worn the Black Adam suitors? Like, he should just do that. Like, at this point, like, he probably. [00:10:55] Speaker B: It would be amazing if he did. I don't know if he's allowed to. [00:10:58] Speaker A: Allowed to. I mean, that. That's. That doesn't stop. That doesn't stop. Jay Cargill as dressing like Storm all the time. [00:11:03] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, he comes out with Travis Scott looking like, you know, 70s Marvel villain. You know, he basically is just like, well, Cody, what's your answer? You know, Cody, you know, he like, you know, does the back and forth, like, should I give my soul over. [00:11:20] Speaker A: To this huge movie? I can't give my soul to you because I gave my soul to this and these people. [00:11:28] Speaker B: So my answer is no. Right? [00:11:30] Speaker A: Go yourself, Rock. [00:11:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is like. And they don't bleep it either, which is amazing. And the crowd just loses their mind. [00:11:38] Speaker A: But, but you missed. You forgot the most important part. John Cena's behind him the whole time going, yeah, Cody Rhodes. Yeah. Yeah. [00:11:45] Speaker B: And mind you, John Cena just pulled off this heroic feat of winning the elimination chamber and eliminating all five men and doing so, you know, just. He hasn't won a match in like five years. Or anything like that because he's also, you know, out in Hollywood doing his thing. And then once Cody Rhodes says no or, you know, go fuck yourself, John Cena is so giddy with joy and starts hugging Cody Rhodes, telling him he did the right thing. And then the proverbial record scratches and the Rock gives John Cena the. To use a wrestling term, the iggy to go and, you know, basically end Cody Rhodes and beat him up. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:25] Speaker B: And John Cena low blows him. And even Travis Scott gets in on the action. And Travis Scott, I think, gave Cody Rhodes a really bad black eye by punching him with, like, a watch. Cody Rhodes dad's watch. [00:12:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Cody Rhodes, dead father's watch, who is a legend in wrestling. [00:12:41] Speaker A: They have. They also. They also have a belt that says Cody Soul. And they're hitting him with it. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, and the. [00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah, and the Rock just like, lords over it. Like Thanos with his arms crossed, his sunglasses, just. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:12:54] Speaker A: And just to make. [00:12:56] Speaker B: To make matters worse, too, John Cena is on his retirement tour where nobody wants to see him turn bad. They wanted to see him turn heel 15 years ago when it would have mattered. And instead, with only less than a year to go, he's going to beat up Cody Rhodes to prove, you know, the. The, you know, the nicest of nice guys. And John Cena is now heel for basically the first time in his career in over 20 years. Yeah, the Rock, basically, it just seems like it's going to be the Rock and John Cena just kind of running ruckshot over over everybody. And John Cena goes on to win his 17th record breaking title at WrestleMania. And the Rock has yet to be seen. So once again, WrestleMania 41 completely basically ruined. [00:13:39] Speaker A: It was kind of a disaster. Not as big a disaster as, you know, the Fox X Men universe. So as someone who watched wrestling a long time ago and came back to it, like, for me, like, a lot of the exciting, crazy, ridiculous characters are just not there. Like, Seth Rollins is close. Right? Penta is close. My girlfriend Rhea Ripley is. I mean, she's like a classic superstar, you know, but, like, what I'm. What I'm getting at is that when a guy like John Cena or Rey Mysterio comes out, it's like an event. It's like, fuck, yes, it's. It's Rey Mysterio. [00:14:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:10] Speaker A: You know, and like, yeah, you're right. Like John Cena coming out and being like, I'm gonna ruin wrestling. Look at me. I'm like, no, I want you to be cool, man. I like you. I mean, he's the worst of that era, but you know. Yeah. So him turning heel is like, I don't know. [00:14:24] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I agree. There's a reason why I fell in love with wrestling in the, you know, late 80s and early 90s. I think I was telling you offline one time that my first ever memory in life is wrestling. Back at Clash of the champions one for WCW 1988. I just, that's just the first thing I ever remember seeing in my life. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Sure. [00:14:44] Speaker B: But in the 90s, it was so much fun. Like we had Papa Shango. Who is this, you know, this, this, like I don't even know what he was. He was, he, he was trying to steal people's souls and locking them in coffins. [00:14:56] Speaker A: He was like, he was like a witch doctor. [00:14:57] Speaker B: He was a witch. [00:14:59] Speaker C: Like a witch doctor or something. That's a fun name to say. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Very, it was very politically correct. [00:15:04] Speaker B: Yes. But yeah, we had, we had race car drivers and plumbers and you know, hog farmers and dude stuff. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Dude, didn't, didn't they like, like have fake cops? Like. Yes, Triple H was too powerful. They had to call the cops. Yes, like he had a real sledgehammer. They had to arrest him. [00:15:22] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, you know, we had, you know, Stone Cold showed up at Brian Pillman's house and Brian Pillman took out a gun and I believe discharged it. You know, obviously, you know, obviously they, you know, they didn't have, you know, it was like gimmicked and storylined but. [00:15:38] Speaker A: You know, it's all amazing, it's all flawless. [00:15:40] Speaker B: But yeah, they, they almost, they almost got kicked off of the USA Network multiple times. You know, it was crazy. And then, and then like something happens. You know, they buy WCW and ECW and you know, everybody goes by their real name and you know, the wrestling itself never became bad. Like the in ring action never became bad. It was always fun, but it was just like the characters and the storylines kind of went away, you know and you know, it's, it's starting to come back a little bit with Triple H now take taking over. You know, obviously Vince McMahon is gone and you know, his vision is gone and you know, kind of thank God for that, especially with what he did in his personal life. But Triple H, you know, he comes from that era of like, you know, the characters and the fun and he hasn't completely brought it back. But you know, we have like the El Grande Americanos and we have, we do have like the over the top Johnson scene is like him like him or hate him, he is character driven. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Seth Rollins is over the top. CM Punk is going to be just remembered forever. [00:16:37] Speaker A: CM Punk is a legend. I love him. Yeah, my boyfriend has a big crush on him, you know. [00:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, he's like. He's my second favorite wrestler of all time for a reason. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Cult of personality is his theme. I mean, come on, man. [00:16:47] Speaker B: Yes. It's amazing. It's amazing. [00:16:48] Speaker A: I want to say that characters like El Grande Americano are great, you know, Unbelievable. [00:16:55] Speaker B: It's one of those things where, like, you could easily hate on it. [00:16:57] Speaker A: We're gonna have to tell Chris about El Grande Americano, dude. [00:16:59] Speaker B: But there's no reason to, you know. [00:17:01] Speaker C: There'S so much so. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay. So full stop. Triple H gets it. He said in an interview that wrestling is opera with incredible fights. It's not as well written as opera. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Love that. [00:17:13] Speaker A: But I've heard comic books described that way too. And it's also true, you know, comic books are also not as well written as opera. But, you know. [00:17:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I love the. The last. The last discussion we had or Matt, I forget exactly. I love the phrasing you use because I was like, what do you, like, what do you consider wrestling? Is it a sport or. And you said something like, it's like an athletic dramatic event or is it like an athletic play or something? Like. Yeah, no, it's like, I like the determine. Because it is kind of like this own separate, like. I don't know. I. I had a question for you guys too, where. Because it was like a discussion Dan and I had. Dan and I had one time where I just love the idea of like, you know, in general. Like, sometimes you talk to people that are like, take things too seriously or like, they're like, there's those guys who will like go off about like, you know, like there's people that are like, I hate like Dungeons and Dragons or like, that's stupid nerd fancy. And then that same person will immediately talk about his, you know, fantasy football league and how like. And then you're like, you don't really see how that's obviously the kind of the same, you know. But anyway, my question was simply like, are there. Are there those people who like, take wrestling too seriously, where they're just like, well, Marvel's stupid or I think superheroes are stupid. But anyway. And they don't. They don't have that like awareness, like self awareness. You realize you like the same. You know, you're basically like the same. Anyway, we're all like, we all obviously realize it's all KFAB or whatever. But I'm just asking, like, are there those people out there who are like, no, like, I like real, like, real stuff. Well, that's my other question. Are there stupid people who like, don't. Are there stupid people who don't realize it's all. Who don't realize it's all cape ass? You know what I mean? Like, who are like, oh, no, this. This was like that guy really died or like whatever they got. That really happened, like, you know. [00:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I will say I think like 99 of wrestling fans understand that everything's kind of like storyline and keyfaby. [00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:53] Speaker B: You know, just something that they're watching to kind of take them, you know, turn their minds off and enjoy. Similar to a movie. But at the same token, there are plenty of wrestling fans who take it to way too seriously and they care more about like, there's like two sides of it. There's like the people who just want the storylines and anything that's not storyline and just focuses on action and action only, that's the worst. And then there's also people who just want the best wrestling. And if there's anything like wonky or wacky, then that's not true and traditional to wrestling, you know, so there's like the two, you know, the two sides of the spectrum. And I stand firmly in the middle. I see wrestling as a beautiful. I think anything in life you need to have like a buffet, right? You need to have a little bit of everything. You need to have a phenomenal match, you need to have a wacky character, you need to have, you know, blood and guts. But you also need to have some comedy as well. You know, I think, you know, some of my favorite movies have everything involved, you know, like there's serious moments, moments that make you cry, make you chuckle, you know, a little bit of violence, a little bit of action, you know, and wrestling should be the same, you know, and some people don't see it the way I do. I think a lot of people do, but a lot of people don't. [00:20:04] Speaker A: I think that's very fair. That's why I like El Grande Americano. It's fucking Chad Gable, you know. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I love that, you know, I won't spoil too much, but like last night at Money in the bank, like, Michael Cole is going hard on basically, like he will not even. He will not even call El Grande Americano. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Calling him Chad Gable. That's so funny. [00:20:26] Speaker B: And like what I love is like, Pat McAfee and Wade Barrett are screaming to the high heavens that Michael Cole was wrong. You know, and how dare he? How dare he? [00:20:36] Speaker A: And, like, Chad Gable would never put on a luchador mask. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And, you know, they even did it, like, last Monday on Raw. El Grande Americano was wearing Chad Gable's boots. And they had to basically explain it, like, you know, El Grande Americano's boots got lost in transit. So Gable was just being a nice guy and lending him his boots, you know? And what's funny, too, is, like, before Money in the bank, they did have the World's collide show on YouTube where WWE versus AAA Chris. That's a Mexican promotion that WWE bought back. [00:21:11] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:12] Speaker B: So they had, like, a special show on YouTube before, like, the big pay per view, and Chad Gable wrestled on Worlds Collide, so he did double duty to us, the fans. But to, like, it was prerecorded. Yeah, but to, like, to Pat McAfee and Wade Barrett, they were like, that's not the same person. How can he possibly wrestle in two matches in one day? And of course, Stephanie Vacker also wrestled on both shows, and Michael Cole was trying to point that out. It's just amazing what they're doing with that. And, like, what's funny is, like, Chad Gable. As Chad Gable is this, like, very, like, over, like, serious, like, wrestler, but over the top character. Right. And El Grande Americano is, you know, just this fun thing that he's doing. So you kind of get that buffet within one person, you know? [00:21:58] Speaker A: So mean. Chris, we have a long history of watching El Santo movies. Are you familiar? [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yes, of course you are. Seen a few. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Well, they're great, aren't they? [00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's fantastic. [00:22:08] Speaker A: For those of you who don't know, El Santo was a Mexican luchadore wrestler who was so popular, he had his own movie series from Chris. What was it, from the 50s into the 80s? [00:22:18] Speaker C: Yeah, something like that. And they're. They're all wild. That's. That's. You. You can't. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Titles. They all. They'll have titles like. Yeah, they all have titles like El Santo versus the Wolfman. [00:22:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:30] Speaker A: No, at some point, he'll be. Right. He'll be wrestling the Wolfman in the ring and then stopping. [00:22:35] Speaker C: Yeah, no, no, again, it's. It's like Anime Logic where it's like, he can't just, like, fight like Medusa or the Wolf Man. It's like. It's like there has to be. Conveniently, there's like, A gym right here. And there's like, a wrestling ring. And we're just gonna, like, okay, okay, well, that makes sense. You know, whatever. Or, like, you'll see, like, the cops talking to Santo about, like, whatever. And he's like, yeah, you know, we need you to investigate this. He's like. I'm like. [00:22:55] Speaker A: He'll be like, okay, I invented a time machine. Let me go grab my time machine. He's, like, wearing his mask. He's all out of shape. [00:23:01] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, it goes into, like, sci fi, like, whatever. Like, it's. It's all. No, I love the idea of, like, mass wrestlers in general. It's like, like, if you. If you, like, lose and, like, you lose your, like, that's like everything. Like, you. You. You, like, basically are dead. Like, you can't lose your mask, man. Like, that's like. I don't know. That's, like, it up. [00:23:19] Speaker A: I bring it up because Chad Gable is white. He is not Hispanic. And, like, comes out. He comes out and they play his terrible mariachi music. And, like, he's, like, wearing his mask and he's beating the crap out of everyone, and he's cheating. He slides a piece of metal into his mask, and the crowd sees it. The announcers see it. Everyone in the ring sees it, but the referee doesn't see it. So then he headbutts Rey Mysterio. He takes out this legendary fucking. Not just wrestler, but luchadore, and it's like, oh, my God. Chad Gable just took out Rey Mysterio with a piece of metal in his mask. And it's awful. He beat Rey Fenix by taking his mask off. You don't do that. Rey Fenix lost because he had to cover his face. So he's a dirty. He's a fake luchadore who is a pure villain. He's pure fucking evil, and I'm here for it. It's ridiculous. It's so stupid, you know? And I agree. I think that it's coming back. Like, I know. Matt, you're a fan of Jey uso. I mean, some people hate him. He's growing on me. And partly because of. Because he's a character. Like, his rivalry with Gunther is, I think, what made it. Because Gunther feels like he's from the 90s. He's awesome. [00:24:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I think if you can. If you can look good against Gunther, you can kind of look good against anybody. You know, He's. He's definitely, for me, like a measuring stick. He. You know, he's such a tough guy, he will beat you down. And if you can, you know, like Jey uso, listen, I'm not, he's not like the best wrestler in the world. But the beautiful thing about wrestling is even though it's called wrestling, you don't have to be a good wrestler. You just have to have a good character. [00:24:47] Speaker A: You have to just ask John Cena 100. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you just, you honestly, you just need the fans behind you. And if the fans are digging you, you know, then, then you're solid. You know, it's kind of like stone cold. Like, you know, he's, he's actually a very good wrestler. When he was in WCW and he was stunning Steve Austin and he had like long flowing blonde hair, he was relying on his wrestling and he was actually, he had very, very good matches. And then when he came to WWE and after he broke his neck, he couldn't do all the wrestling moves that he used to, you know, be able to do. So he just relied on kicking and punching and storylines and the crowd went wild for him. And before that, you know, it's not that they didn't care, but they didn't care as much. So he didn't become Steve Austin until he actually stopped wrestling. So, you know, complicatedly, you know, he actually just toned it down and that's, and he focused on his, on his character. And that's kind of what Jey uso is. You know, the fans just love him because he says one word and they love it, you know, and you know, they just want to eat with him and that's it. [00:25:50] Speaker A: He's like, he's like, he's like my comfort character at this point, you know, so, so Chris Gunther is like Sabretooth. He's this giant, horrifying guy. He comes out to this like epic fucking music. It sounds like the Jaws theme and they're chanting in German, they're chanting all this stuff and you hear and he's like fucking massive. And he's trash talking the audience. He's calling them pigs. I don't care what you think. A little kid gets in his way and he's like, you better step away, little man, before something happens. And like he has a match against Jey Uso's brother, right? Jimmy uso. And he's beating him down and Jey Uso's like, no, my brother. And then like Gunther turns around and grabs Jey uso and fucking zip ties him to the, to the rope and forces him to watch as he beats his brother down in front of him. And then he smears Jimmy Uso's blood on Jey Uso's face and it's like, holy. Like, this just crossed the line. It's like watching Wolverine, like, watch Sabertooth beat his friend down, you know? [00:26:44] Speaker C: So, like, are there, like, rules? I'm just like. It feels like the ref is just like a decorative figure at this point. Does the ref ever do anything? Like, he just kind of stands there, right? He's just like. Or. [00:26:55] Speaker A: Like, I mean, when they get thrown out of the ring, the ref starts counting very slowly down to 10. [00:27:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, he does something, you got. [00:27:03] Speaker B: To give him the proper amount of time on the floor, you know, ten count or not. But yeah, no, Chris, you bring up a good question. Like, I think we're focusing a lot on, like, the storylines there. So, like, that Gunther moment kind of happened, like, after, like, the match. Right? And that's the beauty of wrestling. And that's why, like, I always like to call it kind of. You know, you alluded to this before, like a soap opera for guys, you know. Yeah, because there's. There's like, the storylines where you're just like, you know, just. You're waiting for this one on one battle sometimes between these two main characters that have been built up so much. But then there's all this, like, side in between stuff, too. So, like, it's not just the matches. You know, there's things that happen in the back during interviews where major storylines happen. There's things that happen, like, after the match. So, like, technically, there are no rules after a match is over, you know? [00:27:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:52] Speaker B: So, you know, it's a. It's a fun experience. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Or like, or like Logan Paul cold cocking Jey USO out of nowhere. [00:27:59] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:27:59] Speaker A: Like, it's like, whoa, what just happened? [00:28:02] Speaker C: No, like I was saying. Okay, like I. I was saying last time, like, you know, we were talking about, you know, again, wrestling or sports in general. I was like, yeah, no, like, that shit's awesome. Like, like, again, if it's. It's its own category. Like, if. If football was like that. If, like, oh, you know, you know, like, McNabb hates this guy because he slept with his wife and so he slipped a knife in his gauntlet and when the ref's not looking, he's gonna, like, you know, get. You know, there's no you. I would watch football every day if that. If that was like, a thing. But it's, you know, it's like a totally different, you know, world or whatever. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Like, I agree, I agree, I agree. But I mean, like, that's the thing. Like, in like. Like traditional sporting events like that, there's all these rules. You get fines. Like if, like, Nia Jax, like, if this was real, her. Her attacking Ray Ripley backstage and beating her against the wall and then running away, that would get her, like, expelled if it was real, you know. [00:28:53] Speaker C: Hey. Right, right. [00:28:55] Speaker B: But she gets rewarded with a title match instead, because. [00:28:58] Speaker A: You want to see it, you know, or. [00:29:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Okay. They did. One of my favorite things in the world, we keep. We're never gonna get to Wrestlemania. Who gives a fuck? It sucks, but basically. So Bianca Belair is sitting with Iyo sky and. What's the manager's name? It was Adam Pierce. Yeah. They're sitting at the negotiating table signing Bianca Belair's, you know, match at WrestleMania with. With Iyo sky, her title match. Well, here's the thing. Iyo sky is Rhea Ripley's rival. So they just so happened. By the way, Chris, just so you understand how awesome this is, this table, this negotiating table is in the ring. It's not like in an office. [00:29:34] Speaker C: Of course not. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Backstage. It's in a ring. Yeah, I could be in the ring. I mean, you know. Yeah. So Rhea Ripley comes storming out with her music blasting, her black lipstick on and her. Her fucking purple eyeliner, and she's like, that's my match. In her Australian horrifying accent. And, you know, she charges in like the fucking she Hulk, and it turns into a hole. Like, Bianca Belair jumps up, Iyo sky jumps up, and Iyo sky is doing her thing, yelling and screaming. She's as big as a minute. You know, this. She's this tiny Japanese girl. Well, Rhea smacks her because no one respects Iyo Sky. And then. And then, of course, Bianca Belair gets thrown through the table and, you know, as Bianca Belair and Iyo sky are tearing each other apart, Rea just picks up the contract and signs her name. Like, that wouldn't happen if this was real. So I'm glad it's scripted because that's amazing. That's incredible. [00:30:21] Speaker C: That's what makes it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:30:22] Speaker A: That's. That's fantastic. Like, that was so badass. So it turned into a triple threat match, which. Was it awesome? Yes, it was. But I can understand why Bianca Belair went to a different show because I just feel like she got squeezed out by all the talent, you know? You know, I don't know. By the way, Matt, she was at the elimination chamber. She won it, didn't she? [00:30:40] Speaker B: Yes. That's how she earned that Match against Iyo Sky. [00:30:43] Speaker A: The fuck, man. It's so unfair. [00:30:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, with WrestleMania being too nice, I'm like, I don't understand why we needed so many like multi person matches. Like, don't get me wrong, like, I love the match between, you know, Iyo Sky, Bianca Belair and Rhea Ripley. [00:30:58] Speaker A: It was amazing. It was amazing. [00:31:00] Speaker B: Amazing match. [00:31:01] Speaker A: It was pure sex. I mean it was incredible. [00:31:04] Speaker B: And it was like, correct me if I'm wrong, it was the opening match of night two. Right. And so like to me, like, it's just like, how do you follow that? [00:31:11] Speaker A: I was ready to turn it off after that. I was like, okay, I got it. [00:31:14] Speaker B: It was amazing. And like I, I'm not complaining about the match itself, but like, man, like, why you said, like, why did Ripley have to be there? She could have had her own match. And we had a lot of multi man matches at WrestleMania. [00:31:25] Speaker A: So getting into it, like night one ended with, with the Paul Heyman betrayal, correct? [00:31:30] Speaker B: Yes. [00:31:30] Speaker A: Do you want to, do you want to tell Chris about Paul Heyman? [00:31:33] Speaker B: Oh, man. So like, I mean, how would he would start? Like, the thing is, so like this, this has been kind of, this is kind of like almost the culmination of, you know, like basically the bloodline story. And the bloodline story dates back to like basically the COVID period. Basically it was like a five year long story with Paul Heyman kind of helping Roman Reigns like re rediscover himself and become just like legitimate badass. And Roman Reigns had the title for so, so long, starting during COVID and then he didn't relinquish it until WrestleMania 40 last year in 2024. The entire way, you know, Roman Reigns, he builds his bloodline with like legitimate family members, the Usos and Solo Sokoa, who is also the Usos brother in real life as well. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:32:21] Speaker B: They even had an honorary OO and Sami Zayn, which was fun and hilarious. He was not a family member. He was just a French Canadian white guy. [00:32:29] Speaker A: Well, he, well, well he's part, he. He's part of Jay uso's little, little event. Avengers team now. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Exactly. They even have a secret handshake. So, yeah, so basically, you know, that happens. You know, they build this bloodline and then the, you know, everybody wants to take out the bloodline and then, you know, the bloodline is always on top and then eventually the bloodline fractures a little bit. I'm really summarizing this quickly. [00:32:54] Speaker A: It's years of. It's years. [00:32:55] Speaker B: It's yeah. And then eventually, because the bloodline fractures, Paul Heyman. After Roman Reigns loses the title to Cody Rhodes at WrestleMania 40, Roman Reigns kind of goes away for a little while. He takes a little break. Both like kayfabe and not kayfabe too. You know, he had been. He basically had the company on his shoulders for like four years, you know, so if anybody deserved the break, he did, you know. But Paul Heyman, he's kind of stuck with the remnants of the bloodline and they just continue to fracture more and more every day. [00:33:25] Speaker A: So. Chris, Paul Heyman is not. [00:33:28] Speaker B: He is not a wrestler. [00:33:29] Speaker A: Paul Heyman is not a wrestler. He's a large man who rubs his hands together. He's like bald. He looks like your classic, like money hungry, like, producer. You know what I mean? [00:33:39] Speaker C: Okay, okay. [00:33:40] Speaker A: He's behind. He's behind. He's behind. He's behind CM Punk at one point. He's always orchestrating stuff. [00:33:47] Speaker B: Yeah, he was. Yeah, yeah, I really, really skipped that part. I mean, Paul Heyman is like, we'll. [00:33:53] Speaker A: Be here for the next, the next eight years. [00:33:55] Speaker B: So yeah, he's like one of the masterminds, the geniuses of wrestling. Like, he started off in the 80s as like a teenager taking pictures at ringside and he would like kfab his way into the arena and like just lie like about who he was just so he can like take some pictures and try to sell it to magazines and stuff like that. And then he actually became like a on screen manager in wcw. And then when he left there, he actually became the Booker of ECW, which was just phenomenal promotion in the 90s that basically WWF, like, basically stole everything from all the hardcore stuff. But anyway, when ECW got purchased by D. Heyman kind of joined wwe and he's been working behind the scenes the entire time. But he's the wise man, right? He knows everything about wrestling. He knows people's moves before they make it. [00:34:41] Speaker A: And so therefore, Roman Reigns is his tribal chief. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:34:45] Speaker A: Like, Roman Reigns will literally say, wise man. And he will reply, yes, my tribal chief. [00:34:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Like, he's like, so Roman Reigns, all these guys are Samoan, right? And Roman Reigns is standing there with no shirt, his neck tats, and he's like, wise man. Like, and he will literally go like all like, who's that guy? He's like Varys on Game of Thrones. Yes, my tribal chief. Yeah. And he's, he's slavishly loyal to him. And ostensibly CM Punk is his best friend in the world. [00:35:11] Speaker B: Yes. And it Just so happens that last year at Survivor Series, which is this pay per view where they have this five on five inside of a double two ring cage. They put two rings together and then put a cage around it, and they always have a five on five match. And the bloodline needed to team up against the other side of the bloodline. Right? There were two bloodlines going at it because they had fractured. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Why not? [00:35:36] Speaker B: And so the Roman Reign side with Paul Heyman needed a fifth member so that it would be, you know, even Stevens. And they just couldn't find anybody because they had done so much damage to the entire company and storyline and nobody wanted a team with them until Paul Heyman, you know, called on his best friend CM Punk. And CM Punk does not really enjoy Roman Reigns whatsoever. But he said to Paul Heyman, I will help you out, but you owe me a favor, right? And they agreed. And that favor was cashed in at WrestleMania 41 when CM Punk, who was facing Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins in a triple threat match, he asked Paul Heyman for the favor. And that favor was instead of cornering Roman Reigns and bringing him to the ring and being by his side, he wanted Paul Heyman to be by his side. [00:36:24] Speaker A: It's kind of like when the X Men fractured and you had Wolverine's team and Cyclops's team and they were fighting each other. It's very. Yeah, very similar, you know. [00:36:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. And you know, it goes back, you know, years and years and years because, you know, CM Punk, he. He has. He recently returned to the company the last two years after being away for a long time after basically quitting the company because he was just upset with it and hated it so much. Part of the reason why he quit is because he had never gotten his WrestleMania main event despite like basically kind of being promised a few times. So this is his first time main eventing WrestleMania and he wanted his best friend in the corner, right? So it just like, who's Paul Heyman? Yeah, yeah, who's Paul Heyman? And you know, it makes so much sense and it's like emotional and like, Paul Heyman is the one who, at the table for the contract signing inside the ring, tell CM Punk like, hey, this is going to be the main event. And like, CM Punk gets tears in his eyes and Paul Heymon gets tears in his eyes, and Roman Reigns is looking at them like, what the are you doing? You know, And Seth Rollins, who just seems like the third wheel at the moment, is also like, is. Are you guys serious? Like, you really want CM Punk? In this match, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we get to WrestleMania and I don't know. Daniel, you want to hit? [00:37:39] Speaker A: I don't even know how to describe it. It's. So the match itself is CM Punk versus Roman Reigns. And Seth Rollins is there, right? [00:37:46] Speaker B: Well, Seth Rollins is part of the match as well. It's a triple threat, Right? [00:37:50] Speaker A: Right. It's a triple threat. What? What? Seth Rollins is there to take over. Like, he comes out all the time going, I'm a visionary. I am Seth freaking Rollins. And he dresses like Michael Jackson or something. Or again, like one of the Shi' ar enforcers from X Men. Like, literally, like, I think he came out with a flamethrower this time, didn't he? [00:38:09] Speaker B: I believe so, yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker A: His song is Burn it down, and he literally came out with an actual flamethrower. Like, so, like, there's this big war going on and then like, Paul Heyman has a chance to help either Roman Reigns or CM Punk. He gets a steel chair. And who does he give it to? Matt? He gives it to Seth Rollins, doesn't he? [00:38:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, well, he first. He. He gives it. He. At first, yeah, he tries to, you know, because he's in CM Punk's corner. Yeah, right. He gives it to CM Punk first, right. And then we're like, okay, he's actually gonna help him. They are best, best friends. This is phenomenal. And CM Punk, he's gonna get his WrestleMania moments, right? His WrestleMania win. You know, WrestleMania moments are so big in. In. In WWE. And then he low blows CM Punk. [00:38:54] Speaker A: He punches it. He punches him in the balls. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Yeah, he punches him in the balls, right? [00:38:58] Speaker A: He's like. And. [00:38:58] Speaker B: And then. [00:38:59] Speaker A: And then he gives Roman Reigns. [00:39:00] Speaker C: That's an illegal move, sir. That's my match. [00:39:04] Speaker A: He's not even. He's not even in the match. [00:39:07] Speaker C: So has the chair. [00:39:09] Speaker A: And he goes, I'm so sorry, my tribal chief. And he punches him in the balls too. [00:39:13] Speaker B: Yes. And just as Roman Reigns is about to hit Seth Rollins with this chair, which harkens back to. I don't know, I can't remember the exact year. 2014, 15, when Seth Rollins turned on Roman Reigns by hitting him with the chair in the same, like, positioning, basically. So we all think like, oh, Roman Reigns is going to finally, after 10 years, get, you know, his come up, you get. Get his revenge in the same exact moment. And it turns out all along, this mastermind, this wise man, Paul Heyman, he had orchestrated Seth Rollins taking over the entire time. [00:39:46] Speaker A: He's a bad. He's a bad. And I'm sure we'll. I'm sure we'll talk about him more, like, in coming weeks. But like, yeah, because he's the best. But like, yeah, him and Seth Rollins are now like, what do we compare them to? It's like Magneto and like, I don't know, the mastermind or something. Like, it's pretty great. He's building, like, the Legion of doom. So, like, WrestleMania. I mean, what else can we even say about it? I mean, like, you know, Stone Cold Steve Austin came out in a four wheeler and crashed it, you know, because. [00:40:14] Speaker B: Kind of sort of, you know. [00:40:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Yeah. They couldn't even move it after that. It was just like, what are we doing? What is happening? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So last thing, John Cena and Cody Rhodes have their big match, the big main event, and it sucks. It's terrible. And when John Cena is on the ropes, you think the Rock is going to come, right? And who comes out? It's Travis Scott. It's that stupid fucking rapper. You're like, I don't even know who you are. And he's like, he comes out and, you know, Cody Rhodes beats his ass, too. And, you know, John Cena, of course, wins. It doesn't matter. It's really bad. They keep stopping the call spots to each other, like, whispering, okay, do this, do that. John Cena keeps stepping out of the ring being like, look at me, I'm John Cena. He's such a joke. You know, he's on a movie right now and the director's like, yeah, we had to teach him how to fight because he didn't know any martial arts, you know. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there's. There's actually a. I mean, this is very early in his career, but there's a pretty famous clip of him at a training school when he was, like, learning how to train. And they were there to interview the trainer, not him. They actually. John Cena wasn't even in W yet. He was not famous at all, but he just happened to be there. And the trainer was like, trying to show this, like, news outlet, like, hey, this is how I, you know, show guys what to do. And he's like, all right, John, grab a. Grab a wrist lock. And Jon grabs the wrong hold. And he's like, john, wrist lock. You know, and everybody. And everybody's like, see, he didn't know from the beginning, you know, but yeah, John Cena, love. Listen, I respect the guy. I mean, he's. He's done things that, like, I can Only dream of. But, yeah, this is not how I really wanted his last year. No to, to go. And I'm sure that they're going to do their best to, like, bring it back towards the end and, you know, have it be a happy, happy ending. [00:41:53] Speaker A: It'll be cool. [00:41:54] Speaker B: They have a lot of work. They have a lot of work to do, though. [00:41:56] Speaker A: Hypo, Hypocrisy is human, you know? I don't know. Yeah, I, I, I, I, I like John Cena when he's a dumb guy with a gun. Like, I like when he's peacemaker. Perfectly cast. Perfectly cast. You know. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Definitely agree. [00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah, they'll turn it around. I have faith in it, like, after that. So. Yeah, I mean, I was disappointed the Rock didn't come out. I mean, I don't know, Chris. I don't know. I mean, we've told you. What do you think about WrestleMania 41? Do you think it's. It crashed as hard as the Fox X Men stuff? You're just, you're just laughing. I mean, we get to a point where, where Sansa Stark is playing Jean Grey, and they're adapting the most amazing, like, space opera story ever into, like, a piece of junk. They did it twice, by the way. Same writer, Simon Kidman wrote X Men 3 and Dark. Matt, you saw X Men 3, right? Great movie or greatest movie? You just laughing. [00:42:46] Speaker B: It's in my letterbox. Top four for sure. The good. I would say this. [00:42:50] Speaker A: Oh, my God. What do you want to say, Matt. [00:42:52] Speaker B: With WrestleMania 41 like you said, you know, I do have faith that they're gonna, you know, try to correct the course. You know, since WrestleMania, a lot of good has happened and it looks like, you know, love it or hate it, they do have a plan for, you know, John Cena. Although I don't like, love, love, love where they're going with it, I do think that once it's over, you know, we'll be back on track with all the, the greatness of the main event, too, which is kind of, you know, I don't know if you want to, you know, use this as a segue, but, you know, what Fox did with the X Men, you know, would you say that, like, Marvel is now trying to do what WWE has to do where, you know, they're trying to basically either, I don't know, I don't want to say undo what was in the past, but are they basically going to be like, hey, you know, it's ours now, and, you know, this is. We're gonna try to Save it. Because they are bringing in a lot of those characters and, you know, are they. Do you think they're bringing them in to kill him off or to try to save it and then move on? [00:43:48] Speaker A: Well, it's interesting that you say that, because, like, yeah. I mean, Fox ran it into the ground, I don't think. I think the brain trust that was behind the Bryan Singer era and then the reboot era, it kind of petered out. Like, Apocalypse is one of the biggest disasters I've ever seen. Like, we've had bigger ones, of course. Like, there's the Flash movie. Shut up, Chris. There's man of Steel. Like, all that shit. I hate that. But, like, Apocalypse is bad, and Dark Phoenix is just worse. You know what I mean? So, like, here's the thing. Yeah, back. Back to sucking. It's such a disaster. It's hard to talk about. But, like, Marvel, basically. Yeah. I mean, Marvel themselves hit a rough patch. They released, like, what? Like, three bad movies in a row. I mean, God damn. I mean, the Marvels was really bad. I'm one of those weirdos that liked Eternals. But I'm not gonna talk about it here. There's no. There's no time. But the thing is, is, like, Captain America. I really liked Captain America. I thought it was really good. Thunderbolts was pret. So I'd say I'm back. I mean, Daredevil's pretty good. And, like, here they are, right? They're like, we got Robert Downey Jr. As Dooms. As Dr. Doom, right? And it's like, here are all the characters that are gonna be in the next Avengers movie. And, like, among those actors. I didn't watch the video. I don't have time to watch corporate bullshit. But among those actors they announced are, like, what, Chris? That guy from Hop, you know, what's his name? James Marston wasn't hot. Wasn't Hop a Sonic movie? Chris. All right, enough kayfabe. I don't know. So they have James. James Marston. They. Because I like to tease you with it. It sucks. So, no, they have a bunch of the actors. And, like, you know, I mean, Hugh Jackman was in the Deadpool movie. I mean, he even has the line, oh, Wolverine, they'll never, ever let you die. Well, that doesn't count. Well, Marvel already announced their. Their X Men movie. It's called the Mutants, which. That could be anything, let's be honest. They're doing a thing where Kamala Khan is a mute is a mutant. So whatever, I don't know. But Yeah, I mean, they might bring it back. I mean, that's the thing. So the Dark Phoenix series is. My God. I mean, that era of X Men is like. It's like brain rot. Like, the first. Like, Chris Claremont is. Is heralded as the guy who brought drama and true pathos and, like, a soap opera quality to the X Men comics, right? So I'm trying to read the Phoenix Saga, which is the first bit, and it's like Jean Grey nearly dies and somehow resurrects herself because she's absorbed this thing. So their ship gets shorted out by a solar storm, and she absorbs the power, and she gets resurrected by it. It's some mysterious force called the Phoenix. And, like, you're like, oh, this is interesting. And then they start throwing bizarre stupidity at you. They go to Banshee's magic leprechaun castle in Ireland, because Banshee, of course, is Irish. And, yeah, there. There's literal leprechauns there, and the Juggernaut's there. And then Erik the Red shows up, and he's a Shi' ar guy from space, and it's like, okay, so then they all go to space to go fight whoever. I mean, it's awesome, but it's like, oh, my God. What is going on? And then what's his name, Charles Xavier has, like. He has, like, a mental breakdown, and he creates the X Men, and he creates the. The old X Men, like Iceman, Beast, and all them. Then they're fighting, and it's a whole issue of nothing. It just keeps going. And then, like, there's a part where, like, they're fighting someone, and, like, Scott's like, the old X Men never did this. You guys have to work as a team. And then Nicro is like, but we're not the old X Men. We're the new X Men. We're not good enough. And then they have to cry for three. At three. They all. They literally have to stop and cry for three pages because they're so devastated. And it's like. It's almost as. As great as the WWE in terms of, like, the pathos. It's like, this is totally real, guys, right? You know, like, we're not forcing this, but where I'm going with this is, like, the big conclusion is, like, the Shi' ar Empire guy, the Shi' Ar Emperor, he has, like, this crystal of unimaginable power, and he can't contain it. And Jean Grey flies in, and she stabilizes it and then nearly dies. She seems to only exist to Nearly die, you know. The real story of the Phoenix, of course, is the Hellfire Club, who are a gang of, how do I say? Victorian dominatrix. Like sex weirdos. You know, they're in the cartoon. I mean, that's much later, but. Yeah, she's the White Queen. I know. Yeah, yeah, they're. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She still. She. She still dressed like a Victorian stripper. Yeah, it's pretty great. I mean, I'm not complaining or anything. Yeah. Even in. What was it? Was it First Class where she was played by January Jones? [00:48:00] Speaker B: I think so. Yeah. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah. It's good stuff. It's good stuff. Yeah. So they have some convoluted plot to like make Jean Grey think she's in the Victorian age and she's one of her ancestors and is in love. Love with, I don't know, one of these weirdos with the. With the mutton chop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's. She's wearing like this like tight corset and she's the Black Queen now. And. Yeah, it's. It's pretty edgy stuff. Madeline Pryor is a clone of Jean Grey. She's a bad. Well, she's a bad Jean Grey and Scott loves Jean Grey, so, you know, gotta collect them all. Right. X Men is a very. It's a very horny, very stupid franchise. I love it. I think it's great. Like, there's a part in the Dark Phoenix thing where Wolverine is sneaking around, but he's like wearing his bright yellow costume and it's just like, like. And he's like talking loudly. He's like, ah, nobody better notice the Wolverine here. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. The thing about the Dark Phoenix saga is it has these repercussions for the comic books, like decades down the line, much like Paul Heyman's, but various betrayals, you know, like, I don't know, that entire thing with like, what was the story? It was Avengers vs X Men where the Phoenix is coming back and it's like a worldwide, like, event, like, oh, we gotta stop it. And like there's a team of Avengers in space to stop it, who go out to stop it. Wolverine is like, I'm just gonna go kill Hope Summers, cuz that's the one at once, you know, and like Cyclops has a nervous breakdown because Gene, you know. So my question, Chris, is which property tackled the Dark Phoenix better? Was it the Fox's X Men? Or was it Fox's later X Men? Or was it the cartoon show? No, I mean, I mean, you could do that too. I mean. Yeah. So actually. Actually, I want to talk about the Dark Phoenix movie for a second. So in the comic book, when Jean Grey, like, so basically, after the X Men defeat the Hellfire Club Dark Phoenix, Phoenix decides that she likes being the Black Queen, you know, and she takes over Jean Grey's body and she goes to war against the X Men. They're trying so hard to defeat her and, like, calm her down and, you know, like, Colossus, like, lifts a tree to throw at her. She turns him back into a human. With her power, it turns the tree into gold and crushes him. Yeah, it's nuts. Scott has, like a psychic connection to her, and he goes like this. And she's like, nope. [00:50:13] Speaker B: Boom. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Mine crush. It's great. It's great stuff. And then she flies away, cackling and screaming, and she, like, eats us. Eats a distant star. And. Yeah. Nah. So there's. So there's a lot of retcons involved, but she was. She was basically in the right place at the right time. She. So she's always been kind of. She's always been kind of a weak psychic next to Xavier. Like, Xavier actually beats her and the Phoenix for like a minute. You know, she was. She was there. So speaking about the Phoenix, there's. There's a story in Thor where the Jane Foster Thor, like, battles the Phoenix Force itself. And, like, I mean, obviously Thor's a God, so whatever. But, like, it's revealed that the Phoenix actually is Odin's ex girlfriend. Like, the Phoenix Force itself. Like, there's a book called Avengers A million. It takes place in a million B.C. and you see the first Avengers. It's. It's ode. It's. It's all amazing. Odin with Mjolnir, and he's like. He's the Phoenix. The first Ghost Rider who rides a flaming woolly mammoth. Yeah, so what? Yeah, so I don't even know what to say. I mean, like, so basically when she flies away and starts wiping out civilizations, the Shi' Ar, the Kree, the scrolls, they're all like, all right, let's go kill this thing together. The war. So in the cut in the movie, of course, there's just like these random aliens that are like, yeah, we're in the plot, too. We're not like, what was that, Chris? Like, I don't even. I barely remember this movie. Like, what happened to Dark in the Dark Phoenix movie? Like, yeah. Oh, my God, Chris. No, it was. It was the bird. Like, Charles. Charles goes do it, Gene. And it's revealed that he knew that she had the Phoenix all along when she got it. Who cares? Who knows? Matt, what do you think about all this? [00:51:50] Speaker B: So to kind of pull a. Chris real quick. It's been a while since I read or watched anything related to the Phoenix, but. But I will say, like, the. The Phoenix storyline and just the Phoenix in general kind of has always resonated with me just because I'm not the first person to think of this. So I'm not claiming royalty over the idea, but I think that that storyline, and even though it gets very muddied with all the other side quests, is just a huge allegory for depression. You know, like you said, you know, Jean Grey almost dies, and then she gets basically taken over by the Phoenix entity. And I think, you know, Chris was asking, like, you know, why. Why Jean Gray, you know, not. Why not Charles Xavier. Charles Xavier is this, like, great, huge power and, you know, even probably the best psychic in the Marvel universe. Right. But Jean Grey, she has a weakness. And even though she has great power, yeah, she doesn't. She doesn't have the ability to really fight off the Phoenix slash depression, you know, so the Phoenix kind of sees her as an opening, saying, like, oh, you know, maybe I can take her over. I'm speaking like, I know what the Phoenix is thinking. I can take her over. And what if I can create something much darker that could possibly one day overpower the greatness of a Charles Xavier? Right. And again, that's not exactly what always happens, but that's how I kind of saw it. And it all comes from, you know, the catalyst is Jean Grey being weakened because of her mental. Mental state. Because when you almost die, you know, you just. And you come back to it and you are basically a Phoenix, you know, you're resurrected in some ways. Yeah. You're happy to be there. You know, you're happy to still be alive. But there's also a lot of darkness there, too, of, you know, like, why am I still here? And, you know, you really reevaluate everything in your life. So, you know, the Phoenix kind of sees that. And that's why, like, I'll be honest with you, I. I don't think it was very well, well done in the movies. But I'm excited. I'm very. I'm very excited to see what Marvel does with it. Even though they. They've been. I. I do think they're kind of sort of back, you know, not officially because it's only been like, two, I think, solid movies so far with Two pretty good movies. [00:53:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Captain America and Thunderbolts. But I will say, you know, I know that we're talking about Phoenix mostly, but, like, Thunderbolts, I thought, dealt with depression very well. [00:54:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it was brilliant. Yeah. [00:54:08] Speaker B: And if they're willing to kind of, you know, go into that a little bit more, even with the Phoenix, and kind of like, take the Phoenix where it kind of hasn't been taken before and use it as that kind of allegory for, you know, depression. And, you know, Jean Grey is kind of doing all that because she's fighting her inner demons, you know, where she's trying to fight off the Phoenix, but also, you know, not sure where she is in her own life, you know, whether it's herself or within herself. You know, maybe she's fighting the Phoenix within her mind, or maybe she's just fighting herself within her mind. You know, I think Marvel has a lot of options there, especially since they love to take liberties with stuff, you know, so for me, like, you know, Phoenix always kind of resonated with me just because it is a whole lot more than this fiery bird, you know, And I always like that. And, you know, seeing what Marvel did with the thunderbolts, even though I don't think the thunderbolts was perfect, I think it was kind of like one of their better efforts in many years. And, you know, I thought that they did a nice job of, like, you know, if you're just going to turn your mind off and watch, like, an action movie, you can enjoy the Thunderbolts. But if you're going there and you're looking for a deeper meaning, then you can enjoy thunderbolts as well. [00:55:14] Speaker A: It's got that. Got that heart to it. That's right. It does have that allegorical kind of. Go ahead, Chris. [00:55:19] Speaker B: Okay. [00:55:20] Speaker A: Okay. That's okay. No, so basically, like, I did want to say, like, you know, piggybacking off of all that. I mean, like, when. When the Phoenix is in control. It describes itself as to Ferris to Fereth, actually, because they're romanizing it. But that's the. That's the core. That's the middle Sephirot of the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. And it. I believe it stands for majesty. So there's something there. Jean Grey is definitely one of those characters who is always striving to be greater than she is. Like, she's one of the lesser of the original X Men. She's always crying and falling apart and, you know, dying. So I think that there's definitely something there in Terms of inadequacy and feeling like you're not enough and then breaking free and having this tremendous power that they, they, they, they explain as having been restrained by Xavier, you know. [00:56:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:07] Speaker A: Who in this era is kind of overbearing and kind of mean, actually, you know. [00:56:11] Speaker B: Yes. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, that's one of the more successful, like bits of drama that Chris Claremont like, introduced. Like having Scott Summers, the team leader, butt heads with, you know, the commander in Chief, fucking Charles Xavier, who still treats them like children, you know, it's cool. It's Spider man stuff. It's really good, you know. Matt, Matt, you're. Matt, you're a teacher. Like, you know, like, like, is that something you're used to? [00:56:36] Speaker B: You know, I try, I try not to be that way, you know, I. [00:56:40] Speaker A: Didn'T think you're mean. [00:56:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I try not to. I'm a big believer in that. You know, even though I'm the teacher of the room and I'm the adult, I'm the one who's kind of like in charge, you know, it's kind of like a, it's a two way street, you know, I'm just kind of setting them up with what they need to know and then it's up to them to kind of use it. And I can't tell you how many times I've learned something from one of my students. You know. [00:57:03] Speaker A: Your X Men. [00:57:04] Speaker B: Exactly. So like, I'm not really super Charles Xavier, especially early on Charles Xavier. But you know, I, I do think, you know, you got to understand too. And I think you do. But like, you know, it's like one of those things where it's the time period as well, where like the adult had to be the fuddy duddy, you know, the, the person who like, you know, like there's that archetype of the 1950s, mom and dad, you know, where like, you know, dad had to, you know, he came home just to kind of, you know, be like, hey, here's the money, and then sat and like, you know, didn't really do a whole lot except for like discipline and that's it. [00:57:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:57:40] Speaker B: So like, I think in some ways the original X Men, I was. Charles Xavier was their teacher and father figure at the same time. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think even like the earliest issues, like they had like a curfew and stuff like that where like, you know, we got to get home or Charles is going to be mad. [00:57:56] Speaker A: Well, she, she's the new recruit in that story. Like, like Emma Frost tries to recruit her first. She gets to her first, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you have Wolverine and Jean Grey and Cyclops. They're like adults, but, yeah, you have other ones, you know, like. Like Kitty Pryde that are like a child. By the way, I do want to say one of my funny. One of my favorite parts of this era is Colossus. He's always like, oh, no. By Lenin's Ghost. Like, do Russian people really do. Like, I'm like, I don't know, fourth generation American at this point. But, like, I don't know, do people in Russia go around going by the White Wolf? What. What are they invoking? Geralt of Rivia. Like, it's really funny. That feels like a wrestling gimmick right there if I ever saw 100%. It's like, Colossus, he's the Russian. [00:58:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:39] Speaker A: Speaking of Russians, what about Rusev? He's like, zongief, Zangief back. Zangief will fix you. Oh, wait, no, I mean, Rusev will fix you. [00:58:48] Speaker B: I'm so happy to see him back because he's like. He's a legitimate badass, you know, awesome. You know, he. He kind of, like, wasted a few years, I think, in aew. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:57] Speaker B: You know, but that's probably. I can go on for about another hour about that. [00:59:02] Speaker A: I know, I know. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Well, yeah, happy to see him back. You know, he's one of those guys where, like, you can probably plop him into a wrestling ring but also a comic book page at. At the same time. And that's why, you know, that's why I love them. Yeah, I enjoy guys like that. [00:59:15] Speaker A: So, Chris, what do you think is the. What do you think is the future of the X Men Frank movie franchise? Obviously, the comics have never died, but, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I definitely relate. Like, I'm so old that I walk in and I see, like, Mary Jane wearing the Venom suit, and I'm like, you know what? When these characters are so old, everyone's gonna wear each other's pajamas. So tired. Yeah, it's like how we've had. Okay, there's the classic Fantastic form by Roger Corman, who, by the way, we should all watch the documentary Doomed. It's about the making of that movie, and it's a great documentary. We should watch that and talk about that. But there's the 2000s one. There's fan four stick. There's so many cartoons. They're all terrible except the 90s one. That one's epic. It has Thor in it that. Listen, listen, that movie looks great. I don't care what you say. Yeah, it looks so cool. I'm a big fan of ultimate fantastic four from the, you know, the mid 2000s. I think it's a brilliant, like, very. What's the word? Ambitious comic book. Very, very, very, very. It's almost a precursor to Invincible with some of the themes it plays with, you know, And I like them. I like the retro futurism of what they're showing. It looks like the 60s, right? Matt, what do you think about it? [01:00:26] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm excited for it. [01:00:28] Speaker A: Looks cool. [01:00:29] Speaker B: I think they have a good cast too, you know. You know, I think they have a good guy, good people for, you know, Pedro Pascal I was a little bit iffy on, but then, you know, I do like what I've seen, though, from the previews from him. He is able to kind of adapt a little bit every once in a while. But, yeah, I, I think I'm least excited for his casting, but I'm cool with the other three. Yeah, I, I 100 agree on that. [01:00:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he's. It's. You know what it's like, dude, it's like 80s Schwarzenegger, like, he was just everywhere because people liked him. [01:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah. But, yeah, what I do like, though, is that. That to kind of bring this back to WWE as well is that I do kind of see a vision, though, you know, and not the Marvel vision, but, like, I do see a vision, you know, and that's something I. I haven't seen a vision from Marvel in, like a few years, to be honest with you. Like, I saw them trying to do things, but it was just kind of like meshing things together and then not coming through on it here. You know, I thought, you know, Captain America was solid, and then Thunderbolts was solid, and then it has through line to Fantastic Four. Yeah, and that's, you know, it harkens back to the, you know, early Marvel movie days where, you know, they were taking their time and they were trying to build a through line. [01:01:43] Speaker A: Matt, remember how exciting it was to have a tiny glimpse of Thor's hammer at the end of Iron Man 2. It was like. [01:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's what, like, I, when I, when I stayed in the movie theater after Thunderbolts, I didn't know what to expect. Expect. And honestly, like, given. Given Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four's time period, I did not expect to see Fantastic Four related anything. And I was like. And that just got me hyped for Fantastic Four in July. Because I'm like, oh, it's gonna, like, somehow some way gonna connect to what I just watched. That's amazing. You know, and so, like, you know, it wasn't like, you know, Hercules, you know, as a little, you know, it wasn't, you know, seeing what's his face at the end of Eternals. [01:02:25] Speaker A: Arrows. [01:02:26] Speaker B: Yes. You know, and I'm just like, come on. Like, you know, like. And they just never come through with anything sucked. So. [01:02:33] Speaker A: No, it will never pay off because it sucked. [01:02:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's what I love about Marvel right now. Even though, like, like I said, it's basically just 2025 that I'm feeling. This is that. I already feel like something in the. In Thunderbolt Bolts is paying off. [01:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:49] Speaker B: In the very next movie, you know, and that's what. That's what I want to continue to see. And that's why, like, I am kind of excited. I know we have a few years left, but, like, I want to see what happens with the X Men, because if you're gonna tell me that I'm gonna watch a movie, and then the next movie I watch is going to be related to it, and then the next movie I watch is going to be related to it, even if it's not just the X Men, it's going to be just connected and maybe it leads to a bigger thing that gets me excited. And I think sometimes too, like, less is more, you know, and Marvel has been doing a little bit less, and I think that's a good thing because it definitely got, you know, very much like the Rock and Pedro Pascal oversaturated. [01:03:26] Speaker A: You know, that that's what makes. That's what made those movies fun. It was like, oh, Iron Man's cool. Oh, Nick Fury's here. Holy fuck. You know, I love. I love comic books. I love that, like, Thor will be talking to Balder and Iron man will show up like, Thor. We're in trouble. You know? Like, it's cool, it's fun, and it's. It's crazy that we're living in an era where Marvel's making the movies now and they're doing that, and it's weird that they fucked up so hard with, like, Thor for. Thor's my favorite. I love him to death. He's my favorite superhero. He's one of my favorite characters, period, you know? And that movie was, like, a heartbreak. [01:04:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:02] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's nice to see them getting the train back on that, you know, after, like, she Hulk and all those other flops all Those other terrible things. Chris, you love she Hulk, don't you? Everyone loves the character. No, you're a big fan of the show, aren't you? I, I showed you the, I, I showed you the last episode. That's that, yeah, that shows at its best when it's a superhero show. That's one of the good episodes. Alright, so. Right, so yeah, I don't know. X Men, Marvel, pot. Yeah, yeah, I agree actually, because here's the thing. Like Thor is a character. Hemsworth will only get better at playing him as he ages. Right? And like, okay, they made a bad one. There's, listen, I can tell you right now, there's a lot of good Thor stories. It's fine. Get rid of, get rid of this, this joker that's been writing them for the past two movies. And you know, yeah, it'll be fun, like Captain America, whatever. You know what I mean? Like there's, with the X Men, it's such a huge cast and we, we, we old guys, we have a lot of like, attachment to a lot of these actors. I'm kind of disappointed they're not recasting everyone and trying something bold. But who the knows what they actually do, right? [01:05:01] Speaker B: I think I will, Sorry, Chris. I will say I'm, I'm kind of. Listen, I don't like to wish for anything bad, but I'm kind of such a nice guy, man, that I'm kind of hoping that they're bringing back these Fox characters kind of just to be like, hey, this is the, this is the last time you're gonna see them. And like, you know, because it's like a very multiversal type of story. Like, hey, like this is, this is them in this universe. And then goodbye forever. The next time you see the X Men, it's gonna be this new cast of young kids who kind of get used to them because you're gonna see them for the next 30 years. You know, that's kind of what I'm hoping. I haven't read anything that indicates that, but I think that they're still kind of working on it, which is, which makes sense because that's not what's next, you know, but that's, that's my hope is that, you know, that's what's gonna get me into it is if I see fresh faces with, you know, the promise of, you know, a storyline that's gonna grab me for maybe at least a decade, you know. The reason why I loved the original MCU run is because it took me on this like decade Long run, you know, where everything connected and, you know, obviously the X Men is not going to be the only Marvel Cinematic Universe venture, but, you know, if that's something that kind of just plays a big factor into it and, you know, they're promising me, like, the same characters and, you know, deep story lines for, you know, at least three to four movies, maybe five, like, sign me up, you know. [01:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think that on that note, I mean, like, you know, I think that. What did I want to say? I mean, they do, they do, they do. But, like, Hank McCoy is an Avenger. I mean, so is Wolverine, you know, you know, it's kind of like when Thor's grandfather was tearing up New York and, like, nobody showed up. I mean, you know, I mean, yeah, the Avengers live in the same universe as Sentinels who walk around like Nazi stormtroopers, just kind of arresting people without trials. And Iron Man's not like, we need to take down the Sentinels. You know, like, it's just a consequence of the shared universe universe. Much like how when Jay USO is getting his ass beat by, you know, Seth Rollins and like, you know, it's only Sami Zayn that saves the day. It's not like, I don't know, Rusev doesn't show up to be like, I will fix you, Seth Rollins. Like, that would end the storyline right there. [01:07:10] Speaker B: You know, even, like, technically, like, sometimes Jimmy uso, his brother doesn't show up. [01:07:15] Speaker A: He never shows up. [01:07:16] Speaker B: He's not, because Jimmy. Jimmy and Jay are on two different shows, you know, so, like, technically, Jimmy's not supposed to be there, you know, so, like, you would think that, you know, somebody's brother would come defend him, but, you know, that's, that's the, that's the. Like I said, like, even though Raw and SmackDown are both WWE because they're separate shows, they're almost like the X Men and the Avengers. [01:07:37] Speaker A: It's true, it's true. They don't always share their characters. Sometimes they trade, you know. Yeah, so, like, Hank Pym will go join the X Men and Havoc will join the Avengers. Like, you know, like, I don't know. Listen, I'll tell you why Marvel really wants to get the X Men off the ground. They want to do Avengers vs X Men. That was one of their top selling crossovers. Yeah, it's like, it's like a big turning point because I think that that's how the story starts, really. They're all fighting over who's gonna get their hands on it. And like, yeah, it's like Cyclops and Wolverine and all these other characters have it. And I mean, Iron man fights Magneto and it's not. It doesn't go how you think it's gonna go. It's pretty cool. Yeah. But, yeah, story for another day, so. Yeah. Chris, so wrestling, you know, are there any similarities to the X Men? And it's in its style of drama. [01:08:22] Speaker B: You say that now, Chris. [01:08:23] Speaker A: I know you gotta watch the Undertaker, bro. Say that to Gunther, man. He has superpowers. Bron Breaker's the Hulk, so. Yeah. And Matt. It's a shame. It's a shame. Matt, would you say there are similarities to the WWE and the X Men? [01:08:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:08:37] Speaker A: There you go. That's how it's done. [01:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Comic books and wrestling are kind of, you know, one in the same for sure. That's why I. I love both so much. I wish I. I wish I had more time for comics. I kind of give all my time to wrestling. But, you know, there are worse ways. [01:08:52] Speaker A: To spend your time, you know? [01:08:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you could be going to. I mean, I'm not gonna make that joke, actually. Anyway, yeah, no, there are worse ways to spend your time. So, in summary, watch wrestling and read comics. [01:09:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:09:07] Speaker A: Low brow material is oftentimes the best material because it's not pretentious. Except when it is. All right.